What were they thinking?!


Just as a matter of introduction. I wrote this years ago and thought it to be instrumental in my spiritual growth. It is obviously not how I believe today. This is merely one of the stepping stones of my personal path that will get me to eternity.

I didn’t change the text (other than some formatting) and I have reread it so keep that in mind if you read it.




The writer of Matthew used many references to the old testament to substantiate his claims of the messiah. However, it seems those that they used are not in harmony with what is written!? Read for yourself and leave a comment. 

Please forgive me if this seems hieratical.

YaHVeH has been dealing with me on some things and I just don’t know what to think about this. I know that the enemy f our souls can be very deceptive. That is why I am going to lay this out as it has been brought to me. I am not trying to persuade anyone! I need some one who is on a similar level with YaHVeH (God) to help me understand what it is I am to do with what I am finding. Let me give a little more explanation of where I am coming from and what I am talking about.

I have been taught since I came to be a follower of YaHVeH (God) that YaHshua fulfilled all of the prophecies of the coming messiah. That everything that happened was foretold in the old testament. The other day I was reading a topic study (so to speak) about trusting in the “LORD”. To my understanding, any time in the king james version bible that you see the word LORD in all caps that it originally said YHVH. So, keeping this in mind. Read through the following scriptures in the old testament in the king James format. Then, read the one in the New Testament and see if it is not strikingly different.

Hebrews 12:14-15 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the LORD: (15) Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Psalms 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psalms 11:1-7 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? (2) For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. (3) If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? (4) The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD’s throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. (5) The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. (6) Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and a horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. (7) For righteous the LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
Psalms 31:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. In thee, O LORD, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in thy righteousness.
Psalms 37:4-10 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. (5) Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass. (6) And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday. (7) Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. (8) Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. (9) For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. (10) For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Psalms 118:4-9 Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy endureth forever. (5) I called upon the LORD in distress: the LORD answered me, and set me in a large place. (6) The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me? (7) The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me. (8) It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (9) It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.
Psalms 18:21-33 For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God. (22) For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me. (23) I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity. (24) Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight. (25) With the merciful thou wilt show thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt show thyself upright; (26) With the pure thou wilt show thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt show thyself froward. (27) For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks. (28) For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness. (29) For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall. (30) As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him. (31) For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God? (32) It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect. (33) He maketh my feet like hinds’ feet, and setteth me upon my high places.
Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. (6) In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. (7) Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Proverbs 28:25-26 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat. (26) He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Proverbs 29:25-26 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe. (26) Many seek the ruler’s favor; but every man’s judgment cometh from the LORD.
Isaiah 31:1-2 Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD! (2) Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.
There are many more scriptures that the word uses the exact wording of “the LORD“. The next scripture is taken from the new testament. There were only three returns found in the new testament for the search of “trust in the lord” . The first one is not in that precise wording. The next two were. The first one I read that said “trust in the lord” seemed to be a great contrast to the old testament when I read it. It took me back for a moment. It seemed to be out of place. I am sure that it could be because of the sudden transition from the old to the new that caught me off guard. Or perhaps, YaHVeH is trying to show me something.? Here it is.
Philippians 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

I realize that right about now that most everyone that is reading this is saying. Yeah, so. What’s the big deal. If that is you, there really is no reason for you to read any further. I know that YaHVeH spoke to me through his word. I know that something is not right. If you saw what I saw then I encourage you to read on. Otherwise, I do not wish to waste your time. You will know if you saw what I saw. I won’t have to explain it and wouldn’t be able to if I tried.
Thank you for your time.
YaHVeH’s blessings and guidance to you!

If you feel like you may have seen something there, then please read on. This list below will grow as time permits. I am going to put every reference that the new testament says is a fulfillment of prophecy from the old testament here. With the prophecy that it is supposed to be referring to on the right. That way we can read the new testament scripture and what is happening and the old testament scripture and what it prophesied. I will then try to point out what I see in the old testament prophecies and how they relate (if they do) to the referenced new testament scripture. Please bear with me.

New TestamentOld Testament
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.Isaiah 7:1-16 KJVR And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it. 2. And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind. 3. Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shear-jashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller’s field; 4. And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah. 5. Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying, 6. Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: 7. Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. 8. For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people. 9. And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah’s son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established. 10. Moreover the LORD spoke again unto Ahaz, saying, 11. Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. 12. But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. 13. And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14. Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
If you will notice some very specific references to when this sign shallhappen. Isaiah 7:16 KJVR For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. So, even if those Kings lived to be 100 years old. 

It was still many hundreds of years before YaHshua was born. ?? Everything must be taken in context! OK if this is the only one then we still may be OK. It may be that there is something that I don’t understand about it. Some hidden meaning or time span. Let’s go on to the next one.

Matthew 2:5-6 KJVR And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6. And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.Micah 4:1-13 KJVR But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. 2. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 4. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. 5. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God forever and ever. 6. In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; 7. And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even forever. 8. And thou, O tower of the flock, the stronghold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. 9. Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counselor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail. 10. Be in pain, and labor to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies. 11. Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion. 12. But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor. 13. Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hooves brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. 

Micah 5:1-15 KJVR Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. 2. But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. 4. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. 5. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. 6. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. 7. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. 8. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. 9. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off. 10. And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots: 11. And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds: 12. And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers: 13. Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands. 14. And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities. 15. And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

Everything in context. Does the scene playing out in the new testament sound like the scene that is described in the old testament. Do we see all of the things that are prophesied in this reference coming to pass at this time in the new testament? I don’t, perhaps I am again missing something. Can someone enlighten me please? I am serious here. I am not trying to be a smart-ellic. I will continue.
Matthew 2:17-18 KJVR Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, 18. In Ramah was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.Jeremiah 31:11-19 KJVR For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he. 12. Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all. 13. Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow. 14. And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the LORD. 15. Thus saith the LORD; A  

voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping

for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they

were not. 16. Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. 17. And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border. 18. I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God. 19. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Please notice the entire context and prophecy being shown in Jeremiah. If you will notice, the very next verse says “16. Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. 17. And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.” this is very obviously not talking about what just happened in Matthew. For those children are dead. They were not taken away to another country, they will not come again from the land of the enemy, these children will not come again to their own borders. ??
Matthew 3:3 KJVR For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.Isaiah 40:1-5 KJVR Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. 2. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD’s hand double for all her sins. 3. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5. And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
OK, did this happen. “the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.” Did what was spoke of right there in Isaiah 40:1-5 happen in the new testament. Don’t you dare try to tell me that all flesh saw the glory of the LORD revealed together. That says to me, at the same time. Much like what happened when all of the children of Israel were gathered to hear the LORD talk to them. When he spoke to them and they in turn pleaded with Moses to ask the LORD to never speak to them again in this manner. 

Exodus 20:18-19 KJVR And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19. And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Exodus 19:16-25 KJVR And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. 17. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. 18. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. 19. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him by a voice. 20. And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up. 21. And the LORD said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish. 22. And let the priests also, which come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them. 23. And Moses said unto the LORD, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it. 24. And the LORD said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest he break forth upon them. 25. So Moses went down unto the people, and spoke unto them.

These people saw it at the same time. I believe that when this prophecy is fulfilled, just as it says, all flesh will see it together. That has not happened yet. If it had, there would be stories from every tribe, every nation, every tongue saying they saw exactly the same thing. There would be no doubt that our ancestors had seen something miraculous.

Matthew 4:6 KJVR And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.Psalms 91:1-16 KJVR He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. 2. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. 3. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. 4. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. 5. Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; 6. Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. 7. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. 8. Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. 9. Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; 10. There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11. For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12. They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. 13. Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet 14. Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. 15. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him. 16. With long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation.
Couple of things here. 1st. He is talking about anyone who dwells in the secret place of the most high. He even applies it to himself in the second verse. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: ….. Then he goes on to let you know that he will do it for you also. 2nd. Continue reading to the end of this chapter and you will see something else that rules out this being a prophetic scripture referring to Jesus. Verse 15 is referring to the same one that it is referring to when he said “For he shall give his angels charge over thee,……, so if it is Jesus that verse 11 is talking about then verses 15 and 16 also apply. Verses 15 and 16 say: “He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him. 16. With long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation.”
I can think of one instance recorded when Jesus called on him and he did not answer him. I think he said something like: Father, why haste though forsaken me?
Then, I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him. If this is true of jesus, then he would not have died on the cross or YaHWeH is Lying (of course we know that is not the case) or David was speaking of his own accord and a false prophet. I think none of those are the case.
So, Did Jesus enjoy long life? No, he died somewhere around 32 or 33 (Someone who knows correct me on this one please). 

Why would YaHWeH show his salvation if Jesus IS salvation?
I am not sure what the answer is though I am quite sure that this set of scriptures in psalms 91 are not a prophetic statement concerning Jesus. It just doesn’t fit as being specific to him or a prophetic statement.

Matthew 4:14-16 KJVR That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, 15. The land of Zebulun, and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16. The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.Isaiah 8:5-22 KJVR The LORD spoke also unto me again, saying, 6. Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah’s son; 7. Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks: 8. And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel. 9. Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. 10. Take counsel together and it shall come to naught; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us. 11. For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12. Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. 13. Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offense to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 16. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 17. And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 18. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 19. And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. 21. And they shall pass through it, hard pressed and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. 22. And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.
Isaiah 9:1-7 KJVR Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. 2. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. 3. Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4. For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian. 5. For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire. 6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
On first examination of the related scripture without taking the rest into context and consideration it seems these two verses do line up. However, I do see that it does say that “Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.” and I don’t see that there is peace to the nation of Israel or to the house of David at this time. Seeing as how he said “from henceforth even forever” I would say this to does not speak of Jesus.
Matthew 5:31-32 KJVR It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.Deuteronomy 24:1-2 KJVR 1. When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favor in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.
Hmmm, this makes me wonder. It also brings to mind a scripture. Deuteronomy 4:2 KJVR Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. What exactly does this mean, But I say unto you? Is he actually saying something against himself (Provided that he is God), against the statutes, laws and commandments that he said you shall not add to or diminish naught from. Why would he do that? Did he actually say that? Is he God with us?
Matthew 5:43-44 KJVR Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. 44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;The following two scriptures are what my bible had referrenced to the verse in Matthew 5 above. 

Leviticus 19:17-18 KJVR 17. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him. 18. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD.
Deuteronomy 23:3-6 KJVR 3. An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD forever: 4. Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee. 5. Nevertheless the LORD thy God would not hearken unto Balaam; but the LORD thy God turned the curse into a blessing unto thee, because the LORD thy God loved thee. 6. Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days forever.

I guess they forgot about these verses in the old testament when they were writing “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy” or perhaps, they do say that it has been said. They didn’t say it was written. So, lest we think that in the old testament you were supposed to hate your enemy, we should read the following verses. 

Exodus 23:4-5 KJVR If thou meet thine enemy’s ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. 5. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.
Proverbs 24:17 KJVR Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
Proverbs 25:21-22 KJVR If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: 22. For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.
Just so we are clear that this is not a new command.

Matthew 8:17 KJVR That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.Isaiah 53:1-12 KJVR Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2. For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Finally, it looks like they finally got one that seems to fit. Isaiah 53 does sound like it is speaking of Jesus. Perhaps there is hope that the new testament was only tampered with. I don’t know?!
Matthew 10:35 KJVR For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.Micah 7:1-20 KJVR Woe is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grape gleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit. 2. The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net. 3. That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man, he uttereth his mischievous desire: so they wrap it up. 4. The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity. 5. Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom. 6. For the son dishonoreth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; a man’s enemies are the men of his own house. 7. Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me. 8. Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me. 9. I will bear the indignation of the LORD, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness. 10. Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the LORD thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets. 11. In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed. 12. In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain. 13. Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings. 14. Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. 15. According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I show unto him marvelous things. 16. The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. 17. They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee. 18. Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger forever, because he delighteth in mercy. 19. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. 20. Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
Well, what about this verse: Isaiah 9:6-7 KJVR “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.”
This verse is supposed to be talking about him, according to the new testament writers who referenced it above in Matthew 4:14 – 16. They reference back to Isaiah 9:1 and 2 but if we take the scriptures in context (as we should) the rest of Isaiah cahpter 9 would also apply.
Here is another verse that we have already had referrenced from the new testament writers just as the last one was also.
Micah 5:2-5 KJVR But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. 4. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. 5. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.
I know that this is not talking about Jesus but that is not what the new testament writers are saying. Just previously when I referrenced Matthew 2:6 this is the same reference they were making to support their claims of “for thus it is written by the prophets”.

I am not finished with this. I am doing a little at a time. If someone else has done something similar to this I would like to see it. Write to me at admin@godlyfamilies.org Thank You!

I am not trying to persuade anyone that the bible is a lie. That is not my goal or motivation for this study. I am very concerned that what I have believed for so long to be truth unwavering, could not be thus. It make no sense to me why these things are the way they are if the new is just as inspired as the old. Here is my question. Why did the new testament writers refer to the old testament writings and prophecies trying to validate what was happening as a prophecy fulfilled if indeed it was not? It seems to me that there has to have been some tampering with the writings or that all of the writings are bogus. Trumped up by the catholic church led by Satan himself to bring another savior for the entire world to follow blindly after thinking that it must be true? I really don’t know which scenario is true or if it is something entirely different. The truth is somewhere. I want to know it. I do not put anything past the enemy. He is the great deceiver and I am starting to get the feeling that I have been deceived on a grander scale than I first suspected. I welcome any comments or suggestions from anyone with a pure heart. Who is not trying to spout their own agenda or trying to twist the scriptures to fit. Let the scriptures speak for themselves. If it is truth it will stand.




If you have lasted this long, let me just remind you that this is simply a copy of something I wrote years ago. So please don’t go trying to correct me here or there because I don’t really believe this way anymore. More or less, I believe that the New Testament (in the very least if not the whole book) was not inspired by God alone if at all. More likely than not it is rather a convenient sort of programming by the Catholic church. It borrows so many other beliefs, myths and legends from other cultures and religions it verges on ridiculous. The more I learn about other religions the more I can see how the bible has “borrowed” things from them.
Don’t even get me started. That is another book in itself.

Now you know.

Thanks for reading,


11 Replies to “What were they thinking?!”

  1. This is a very deep and detail study. I don’t know a lot of the history of the people of that time. And some things have a spirital meaning. So it is not always just black and white.

    But the thought I had was when I read the word I can see it after it happens. What God was trying to show us. like when Israel became a nation again. It is like, oh that is what God meant.

    My brother loves this type of study. If you don’t mind I would like to let him read this. He is very detailed and can give much better answers then me.

    1. Sorry to be getting back so late. I have been very very busy.

      It is certainly OK if your brother reads and responds. No permission needed.

      In fact, the more the merrier.

      That is why I wrote it, in hopes that others would read it and either:
      1. See what I saw and gain deliverance from an oppressive life style and belief.
      2. See a mistake in my logic or understanding and show me the same.

      Really, either result is acceptable to me. Though it is unlikely at this point in my life that I will ever be persuaded that my understanding is lacking. The older I get and the longer I am on the other side of “religion” the more I can see clearly that I was deceived. Of course, anything is possible.

      I welcome any and all response that is based in reasonable discourse and logic.

  2. Wow…how to respond to this? It is very lengthy and in-depth, and I would probably be afraid to even try…if you had not INVITED me to do so on Facebook a couple weeks ago. 🙂 (Sorry I am so long getting back to this, btw…)

    So, for openers, Gary, let me say I am NOT a great intellect, or prophecy student, or even Bible scholar. And I feel totally incapable of answering your questions on an intellectual level. But I do feel led to give some sort of feedback to your questions, as I sense you are sincere, so I am feeling after what I think the Lord would have me to say here…

    BEFORE addressing specific prophecies, a few things DO come to mind to state:
    As I am sure you are well aware, the Lord often speaks in parables, proverbs and mysteries! In fact in my opinion, the whole business of prophecies IS a parable, proverb and mystery. Having said that, the only way one can understand or unlock those mysteries is when we TURN OUR HEART to God… our natural minds cannot comprehend the supernatural and divine things of God. II Corinthians 3:15 speaks of the minds of the children of Israel during Moses’ day being blinded “even unto this day” (Paul’s day) because of “the veil upon thieir heart”. Nevertheless “when it (their heart) shall turn to the Lord, the veil (or blinders) shall be taken away.” When we turn our hearts TO God, the veil is lifted and our understanding is opened. So before you read further, I would ask that you would turn your heart to God…as you understand him today…and ask him to open your understanding to anything I might say here that may be of benefit to you. In fact, go ahead and ask him to help you even in spite of any errors on my part, because again I assure you, I am way over my head in trying to answer your objections to the fulfillment of prophesies in the New testament.
    And further, we must also WANT to know the Truth in order TO KNOW the Truth! I believe scripture for this can be found in John 7:17 where Jesus said, “If any man will do his (the Father’s, God’s) will, he shall know of the doctrine (teaching), whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” Note that Jesus puts willingness to do God’s will BEFORE understanding God’s will. There is a principle here that seems applicable to anyone desiring to know the truth of God. The world tells us to understand and then to do. God tells us to be willing to do, and then we will understand.
    As concerning the FIRST PROPHECY you listed From Matt 1:23, concerning the coming of the Messiah, I am sure you know that was fulfilled in Christ. However, as with many if not most prophecies, there was a corresponding current-day situation going on in Isaiah 7:1-16. According to Matthew Henry (M.H.), the comment about “before the child will know to choose good from evil”, would be better stated as “before this child” referring NOT to the futuristic Christ-child, but the current-day son of Isaiah, Shear-jashub (meaning “the remnant shall return”), who Isaiah was ordered to take with him in vs. 3 above. According to M.H., in about 3 or 4 more years (when the child was old enough to eat butter and honey), “the land which you abhor” (referring to Syria and Israel, in vs. 1) was forsaken of the two kings when Rezin and Pekah (also mentioned in vs 1) were killed. M.H. states this is told about in II King 15 & 16 and II Chronicles 28. (Please refer to M.H. Commentary for more details.)

    Sorry, I only addressed the first prophecy listed here. This is just a TEST…I could spend many more hours looking up all these prophecies, but again I am no scholar and doubt I would do an adequate job. Besides, if you really wanted to know these things, I think you probably have plenty of friends in the UPC that could do these subjects more justice.
    But, I have gathered from some of your writings you are really NOT wanting to be convinced that Jesus is real…or that the Bible is true…so before I would waste a lot of your time or mine (yours in the reading and mine in the researching and responding)…and here is the TEST…I would want some kind of feedback from you saying I should do so. I don’t mean this rude in any way, Gary…just “keeping it real”, as my step-daughter likes to say, and trying to honor what you seem to be saying in your posts…and not trying to convince you of things you have already determined not to believe.
    And I would like to ask you to do one or two other things before you toss this “baby and bath water” out…would you look at these next two links, and at least CONSIDER what these men have to say. PLEASE! I am much like you, in that I also do not care too much for “religion”…but I do believe it is the vehicle God has chosen to convey to his creation what his desires are for how we are to live. I like Francis Chan’s analogy (not stated in the following link of his, but in another book I read)…it is like saying WE (humanity) are a SODA POP CAN and God is ALL OF THE WORLDS OCEANS. My little soda pop can can’t possible CONTAIN or UNDERSTAND all of the oceans of knowledge that God has (would I worship Him if they did?)…but I DO believe He has managed to salvage enough of His Truth, and preserve it in His Word (the Bible), that ANY one of us could read this book and still be SAVED…in spite of any errors of the earthly Catholic church or whomever! Not that I think that ALL of God’s wisdom is contained in the Bible…it is just the soda pop can’s worth that I am able to digest in this lifetime…which is amazingly SIMPLE enough for someone like me, but COMPLEX enough to keep scholars and theologians entertained for centuries!!
    For though we look through the glass darkly now…yet when we get to the other side…there are things we will understand. But…it is he that WILL DO the will of God that…in time…WILL UNDERSTAND the will of God…not he that WILL NOT!
    Here are the two links…please take a look and let me know if there is anything else you would want to hear from me.

    John Piper’s 3-minute video on” why can’t we get straight answers from the Bible”…

    Francis Chan’s video about “Erasing Hell”…

    Trish Fleming

    1. Thank you for reading and responding.

      Just to clarify something that you touched on in your response. My heart couldn’t have been more turned to God. I assure you that I was living my life completely and totally dedicated to him and his service. I could go into the specifics and share with you my life and the intents of my heart and all of the “proofs” one could ever have needed to understand and believe that if anyone’s heart was ever turned towards God, mine was. Every waking hour of every day was filled with thoughts of him and how to please him. I filled ever idle moment seeking his will and studying his word so that I could be sure that I would never transgress any of his laws. This was actually one of the things that hurt me the most after I realized the truth of it all. I couldn’t understand how any God that fit the description of the bible God could not show me the truth when I knew he could see the true intents and desires of my heart. As time went on and no new truth or revelation came to disprove my revelation of the discrepancies that I had found, I realized that the God of the bible could not exist.

      I would never had shared with you what I did back then because I would have considered it to be something like bragging. I didn’t do what I did for recognition or acceptance from people, ever. I really did not care what anyone thought. I was pretty much an outcast because of my desire to follow the bible only. Because I spent so much time studying and “rightly dividing the word of truth” I often knew more than most everyone in the church about what God expected from us. I still have most of that information and understanding stuck in my head. Of course now I look at everything quite differently.

      If you’ll take notice of some things which seem obvious to me now but where some what obscured from me at the time when I was a “christian”. There are many scriptures throughout the bible that insure that if anyone does not understand something, it is merely because of one reason or another that is outside of their reach of understanding. They are either not able to grasp it, not faithful enough, not pure enough, not holy enough, any number of reasons that help ensure that if anyone has anything that remotely points to something being off or untrue, there is a scripture that explains why they just don’t understand. This is suspiciously self serving. It helps to ensure that any that might have questions can simply be told that it is not for them to understand at this time. When you are on the outside looking in, it becomes obvious just how self serving it is.

      I will have a look at these links. I can’t right now but I will at some point. I make no promises but I am open that there might be a remote off chance of something I have somehow missed. Even if this one scripture were somehow explained, there are hundreds more that would also need to be explained. Many have tried but none have yet explained how these discrepancies can be anything different. But, you never know.

      Again, thanks for reading and commenting.

  3. Gary: I know you didn’t ask for any further response from me, but I just keep pondering the things you said in my heart, and there are just some thoughts that won’t leave me alone, so if you will allow, I would like to share some of them with you…

    As for God not giving you new revelation on the prophecies you were studying so you could be sure they were true…can I ask you a question? In looking at your blog, it is apparent you and your wife are homeschoolers. How do you think your wife would have felt if her little first grade son or daughter had come to her and said, “Mom, I just think I can’t study all this homeschool stuff unless you can PROVE to me on the front end that it is all TRUE!” Or imagine your son, upon graduating high school end entering college, if he would tell his professors, “Unless you can CONVINCE me all this is true, I am not going to study these classroom books and materials you give me.” Besides failing all their classes; and besides you, your wife and the teachers being frustrated and concerned about your children’s education…don’t you think it would just grieve your heart as a father to find your children did not TRUST you…even if it was just in the area of their education? I believe it surely would. And even if you were able to prove to them on the front end that everything they would learn would be true, wouldn’t that basically circumvent the whole purpose in going to school…which would be to learn? And even if it were possible, would giving them all the answers even be the RIGHT thing to do, or the BEST thing to do for them in that situation…or wouldn’t the bigger issue be building up that missing trust in the relationship? Would it be good for them to send them off(specifically, to college) to get an education without that parental trust in effect…to a place where they would be under the influence of so many others who could lead them wrong…if they did not have that bond of trust with you to help guide them?

    And all that to say, what if prophecy is NOT the area the Lord would want you to have your focus on right now (or back then…not sure of timing of some of your writings)? What if the One Who Knows Our Hearts Better Than We Do actually knows that too much knowledge of prophecy would “puff you up” (in pride) at this time of life, which could draw you AWAY from Him…and that instead He wants to work on developing TRUST in your relationship with Him. Because if you trust Him, you will follow him, even when the path gets dark and confusing…like our world is getting dark and confusing now…and it is only in the establishing of that trusting relationship that He can truly keep you safe in this present evil world. WHAT IF His intentions in not answering your request (or demand?) for more revelation and information was actually part of His plan to PROTECT you, NOT to deny you some much needed information. After all, you had been raised in church, and had already walked with Him for years, and received His Spirit that guides us into all truth…WHY should he need to convince you AGAIN that He was real and true, through prophesy (Rev 19:10 says “the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy), when that should already have been well established in your life? WHAT IF instead of asking that He give you further revelation of the prophecies…WHAT IF you instead asked Him if there was something else He wanted to show you?

    Like you, Gary, I left the church for a while…one year to be exact…wanting to think some things (truths) through for myself rather than taking everybody else’s word for it. And quite frankly, I am still glad I took that time out…because I learned a lot. To start, I had quite a wrestling match with fear when I left…afraid that I would lose out on my salvation if the Lord came back while I was out of church…sound familiar? One night that I was particularly concerned I knelt at my bed and cried to the Lord, “Oh, Lord…I know that you love me when I do things right, but I don’t know that you love me when I do things WRONG!” I didn’t expect an answer to my cry, but I received one. That still small voice said, “That’s what this is all about…you have to learn about MY MERCY!” I realized I didn’t know much about his love and mercy…I had been focused on all the rules and regulations! But he died to set us free from all that…because the letter of the law killeth, but it is the spirit (of truth, love, AND freedom) that gives LIFE!

    So the Lord actually CONSOLED me in my excursion from church, He did not chastise me as I expected. My pastor never called me to see why I left…my best friends, Roy & Loll Martinez were disappointed in me…and I remember saying one day to the Lord…”Well, Lord, it’s just you and me!” And you know what I found out…He never turned His back on me; He went with me (God is married to the backslider, you know…how much MORE will He go with those who really are just in SEARCH FOR MORE OF HIM!!). He led me to a funny little Trinitarian church out in the country… over in Caddo Mills, as a matter of fact…you may have seen the lighted RED CROSS from the interstate. The first day I got out of my car to visit, and promptly stepped into an ant hill…I said to the Lord, “Well, Lord, it must be of you, because it is NOT COMELY TO LOOK AT!” And it was of Him, and the Lord ministered to me there. I never told the Lord I wouldn’t go back to the Living Word Church in Greenville…although I never really expected that I would either. But after about a year, I was driving down Wesley Street one day, and suddenly it just dropped right down into my heart…seemingly out of the clear blue sky…that I wanted to go back to church in Greenville…where my “real” brothers and sisters in the Lord were…the ones with the same LAST NAME…not just my spiritual “cousins” in Caddo Mills. I had been pondering the scripture in Galatians 3:26-27…”For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” My Trinitarian friends had faith in Jesus…but they did not accept his name in baptism. I don’t judge their salvation to this day…I just want to be obedient to what the Lord has revealed to ME!

    I wish I could tell you it was easy going back…but the truth is that another great struggle ensued. The main issue still existed that had caused me to leave in the first place. Over the years I had counted on the fingers of ONE hand how many sermons I had heard on the LOVE OF GOD! That would be 5 sermons over a 15 year period of time! I really hungered to hear more about God’s love, in addition to His Truth. In fact…in my early years, I used to sit there and hear in my mind an old Tina Turner song that I could still envision her dancing to, as the words went through my mind, “What’s Love Got To Do With It…got to do with it…got to do with it…???” (Crazy, huh?) I don’t think that was the Lord talking to me, by the way…just my carnal response to a spiritual need…which was for MORE of the Love of God. I knew the Lord had lead me to more TRUTH about His Spirit than I had experienced in other denominational churches. But I could not resolve my issue with the LACK OF LOVE I was experiencing in the church. That is, until the Lord gave me CLARITY on the matter by “leading” me past a church marquee in Dallas one day that said simply, “THE TRUTH WITHOUT LOVE IS BRUTALITY!’ An explosion occurred in my mind when I read those words! Finally…the answer had come. I had been trying to live according to His Truth without His Love…and it felt brutal to me!
    The last years of my life have been lived trying to balance out the truth of God with His love. I admit, it is a battle that some days I am just not up for. But you know what…I have had to learn that it really is NOT my battle…the battle really does belong to the Lord. I am amazed at the MERCY of God, who continues to reach for me when I do lay down on the battlefield. And I learn more and more every year to turn the battle over to Him. I haven’t yet wrestled unto the letting of blood…and I have continually become more and more convinced that it truly will be worth it ALL one day…just to get one glimpse of Him…the One Who Saved Me By His Grace! He really is over there in Glory, you know…whether anyone has ever seen his face or not! Or as one man in our church stated recently in his teaching lesson about some of the scientific evidence of the existence of God…”Quite frankly, I don’t know, and I don’t care!” (:::tongue in cheek:::) His point being, he has already become convinced of the existence…and goodness…of God, he no longers need the proof. And so have I!

    Gary, if you make it this far…I had no idea where I was headed when I started this letter a while ago. And there is still much more I could say. But in my spirit I feel like I have said at least part of what the Lord wanted to me to say to you today. He is still nearer to you than you know….He still longs for you…and He still loves you with an everlasting love! BUT…He is not obligated to reveal to you what YOU want to know…He may have valid reasons to reveal to you what HE wants you to know.

    So could I ask one thing of you…would you go back to God just one more time, and instead of asking Him for further prophesy revelation, ask Him what HE wants to reveal about Himself to YOU at this time! He may have many revelations of prophesy to give to you in due time…but He may just be waiting…for your soul’s sake…to reveal them at another time….AFTER He has revealed what He needs for you to know now.

    And I do hope you will still look at those links I sent before…they are NOT Pentecostal preachers, btw…but they are Spirit filled men who seem to have found a healthy balance between the truth of God, the fear of God, and the love of God. It is a balance we all have to find sooner or later to continue on in our walk with Him. It is one thing to examine other philosophies, belief systems, and religions…or to be a FREE THINKER, as you stated. But it would be a shame NOT to include your old religion in that examination…faith in Jesus Christ… a religion which has stood the test of time and has served so many so well, and that I believe is true! Rethink the wineskin (as one author calls it)….and how HOW TO DO Christianity…but don’t be too quick to rethink your Creator and Savior! Man’s methods of delivering the MESSAGE may need to change, but we must allow for the fact that the MESSAGE itself just may be TRUE!

    I wish you well in your spiritual pursuit of TRUTH. In closing, I want you to know that I am going to pray that the Lord will give you a “Road To Damascus” experience…one that will leave you with NO DOUBT as to whether or not Jesus is the One True God. So be on the lookout…if you get blinded by the light… don’t panic, that just may be your answer to prayer!
    God Bless!
    Trish Fleming

    1. Hi Trish, I approved your comment but I haven’t had a chance to read it yet. When things slow down a bit, I’ll take some time to read and respond.

      Thank you for taking the time to reply and I will be respectful of the time you have invested in your response and give a reply. Just give me a while to do so if you don’t mind.


    2. Well you said a lot in your comment and I won’t address all of it. I don’t really have the time.

      First let me say that yes, I would gladly prove to my children that it was true before making them endure the learning if they asked me to. It really doesn’t compare though. You are talking about real, physical flesh and blood beings that can be seen and things that can be proven. Nothing you do can prove the existence of god.

      There are so many things that are so clear once you see that it is full of lies and discrepancies.

      Here is one for you that almost every UPC or one god pentecostal believer fails to consider and apply to their lives. You fail to consider and understand that Jesus, the name, could not possibly be his name. No matter how you slice it this is a VERY BIG problem with your belief. Because your belief assigns greater authority and meaning to that name. When in fact, it has changed an innumerable amount of times. There is no way to know for sure what his name is if there even was a he. The Jews of the day did not speak English. The original translation to the English language wasn’t even Jesus because the letter J did not even exist. Now if you start studying that and you come to the realization that the name jesus can not possibly be any greater or carry any more significance than any other name you will start trying to find his “true” name and you will begin calling him Yeshua. Even still, that does not take away the problem that there is something wrong with the bible. You can mark out jesus everywhere it appears and replace it with Yeshua or any other name and you have only just begun to scratch the surface of all the lies and discrepancies that are in the bible.

      The reason “god” did not reveal to me why the prophecies were a lie is because god does not exist in that way.

      You really can not possibly know me and what I knew at the time or where my heart was or had been at that time. All of this things you mention I was so beyond. My “growth” was on a level beyond most everyone in church. I am not boasting and never would boast and did not think of myself more highly than I should. It wasn’t arrogance or pride, it was experience and knowledge. I could tell you all about my experience with “god” and you still could not fathom the true experience, my experience.

      The reason I am no longer a christian is because I saw the bible for what it is, a collection of stories that do not line up and it should never ever be used to live one’s life by. It is biased and written in such a way as to prevent those who believe in it to ever see the truth of it. You are warned to stay away from anyone or anything that goes against the bible. If the bible was so perfect and true it would not need these protections from other knowledge and truth to keep the hold on it’s followers that it does or to keep it’s validity.

      Regardless of your experience with god, you must know that there are problems with the bible and that there are questions on it’s validity that can not be rectified.

      I am out of time and must cut this short but I thank you for the time you have invested into the comments. I am not interested in the bible any more because I know what it is. I have seen it with utter clarity that I would love to share with you and every other person that lives in fear. Fear of whether or not they are pleasing “god” and whether or not they are going to make it to heaven. Because one bad thought is backsliding and if god comes back or you die suddenly without repenting and praying through then you are going to hell. Do not pass go and do not collect $200. THAT… is not life.

  4. Gary:

    “Experiencing God” by Henry Blackaby. Seems whenever I have some real issues of the heart I am dealing with, and I can’t find the right person in my life to speak to my heart on the subject, the Lord has a way of just dropping a book into my lap that really addresses the issues I am struggling with. This came to me recently highly recommended….and has turned out to be everything and more I was wondering about…and I felt in turn I should highly recommend it to YOU!



    1. Thank you for the recommendation but no thank you. Until someone can explain the discrepancies in the bible, nothing else matters. Because if the bible is a fake, a lie or just some stories made up or written down (via third or who knows how many from the source knowledge), then none of the god stuff in the bible can be trusted or believed in anyway.

      It means there is more or maybe less to it than what the bible says there is.

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